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A conversation about the furry documentary “The Fandom” really got the ball rolling down inequality at furcons whether it be within staff or panels on the floor. It was a pleasure to chat with Jason Blade and get his perspective, and personal insight into the funny ways sexuality happens. Okay, most people don’t get started from Typhlosion x Tyrannitor smut, but I digress. 

There’s a lot to learn here in terms of understanding the other side of the tracks. 

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Jason Blade

[00:00:00] Rhyner: [00:00:00] You are now listening to the "What's The Fuzz" furry podcast episode three interview with Jason blade.

Happy July everybody. It's your fur Rhyner. As of today, the three policemen involved with the murder of Elijah McClain has been fired. And at this point, none of the others are facing arrests. Uh, I bring this up not only because it's an important moment in history right now with the civil rights movement, uh, ripping across this country, but also because, uh, For the months of June and July,

maybe August as well.

We'll see,

I'll be interviewing furries mainly from the LGBT plus spectrum, uh, who also happened to be black. And if you're wondering, yes, I am black and Mexican. Anyways, uh, today I'm interviewing a cartoon reviewer [00:01:00] actor and charming, honestly, a black furry by the name of Jason blade. You can check them out on YouTube or on Twitter @JXBReviews.

How are you doing today, Jason?

Jason: [00:01:10] I'm doing pretty good. Thank you for having me. It's pretty awesome that we get a chance to do something like this.

Rhyner: [00:01:16] Hell yeah. I'm all about elevating black voices in the community.

Jason: [00:01:20] Yeah, it's good. Cause I know that like when it comes to, um, furs of color, we don't really get a lot of representation here and it's always good for us to help uplift each other and any way that we can, because you know, it's.

Things that we have to deal with every day is real, whether it's in the furry community or just in life in general. So it is important for us to go ahead and continue to represent us for who we are and be the best of what we can be.

Rhyner: [00:01:50] Yeah, exactly. Like, uh, even in like the cartoon movie in community, I can only think of like, uh, one cartoon of your, that you know, is black.

I think it's the Panda [00:02:00] guy. Do you know that?

Jason: [00:02:00] Yeah. Yeah. Alpha JVF, , I'm actually really good friends with him as well. So yeah. Um, I've actually, uh, collabed in a couple of his videos too, so that's been really neat. But, uh, I know like him and a couple of other, uh, reviewers as well. That's been, it's been really nice.

We actually have like, um, a little server ourselves where we can just go ahead and talk amongst each other too, because it's very important for us to like, get to know one another and such and things like that.

Rhyner: [00:02:30] And that's super dope. So you all can like link up and support each other and promote each other's stuff.

And that's, that's just awesome.

Jason: [00:02:37] It's again, it's just, it's just showing the importance because there's a lot of talented people out there that aren't really seen. And it's always good for us to, to be able to show them, to show them and show that, Hey, this, this is from us. This is what we can do to, you know.

Rhyner: [00:02:52] Oh yeah. Feel you there. Um, in fact, have you seen the documentary, "the fandom" yet?

Jason: [00:02:59] Yes. [00:03:00] Yes, I have. And I got to say the fact that, uh, Ken Cougar was the one that kind of started this whole idea of the persona is just great. I think that that's some really awesome things. I would say it would have been nice to know a little bit more about Ken cause that's a really big deal.

Rhyner: [00:03:21] So, yeah, it is, it, there was, it was almost like treated like a side piece, you know, overworking plot of, uh, the narrative that we're going for. And that, that did rub the, uh, black and indigenous people of color, you know, community

and the furry fandom a little bit raw.

Jason: [00:03:39] Yeah. Cause there really wasn't a lot of, um, of color within there.

I know. Um, they said they're going to be planning on doing a part two, so hopefully they'll be able to, um, speak out on it more. Cause I know, especially when they have yeah guys like, um, Sonic Fox as well [00:04:00] as some of the. First that are planning to do the first, first of color led con, which is a really huge thing.

Cause we don't really see any first of color within those types of positions. So we do have quite a few people that can represent us well. That could be definitely be voices in the fandom.

I was actually really surprised to find out

that I'm

Rhyner: [00:04:23] usually in those top positions, you don't see a lot of furs in color.

Furs of color. Sorry.

Jason: [00:04:29] Yeah.

Rhyner: [00:04:30] It's like a rare thing if ever, and you know, in reply they were just saying, you know, you got to apply for the positions that are the, but you know, obviously. You don't see them as favorably because you would have seen like more by now.

Jason: [00:04:45] Yeah, I agree. Cause I know like, even from the top of my head, I don't really know anyone who holds such a high position in staff in any of the conventions that.

I've witnessed or I've paid attention to like for FWA, [00:05:00] that's like my home con, like we, of course there are some, uh, physical data within staff, but I don't, I think they really, they don't really hold a very high price in all honesty. So it would be nice to be able to, to see more per first of color, be in those positions because.

Um, there are plenty of furs who know how to, um, be able to manage very well and, and things like that. So hopefully we'll be able to that with this, with this movement of having a, um, uh, first of color led con that it will lead into more positions being available for guys like us.

Rhyner: [00:05:39] Oh, I get what you're saying there.

So like, people are in the positions, but not something where they can like change something to make it like, you know,

Jason: [00:05:48] Yeah. And also the even getting into the, into the discussion of cons. There aren't really a lot of firs of colors that really, I had a chance [00:06:00] to leave panels either. To be honest,

Rhyner: [00:06:03] really?

Jason: [00:06:04] Yeah. At least from what I see usually. Cause I mean the only one that you really see that are led by firs of color are usually the, the FLC panels that is just there for every con. And it would be nice to see more that are like that in a way. Yeah, maybe you talk about like, Hey, here's some hip hop versus a hip hop for a panel or things like that.

Being able to, you know, embrace that kind of culture as well, because. This is w this is supposed to be like a, um, a safe space for furs and stuff. I think having other things outside of just saying, yeah. Hey, here's a, here's a, uh, panel focused on, on, um, first of color, just go there, but maybe here, instead of just doing just solely that we can also add in some more, into more like culture-based panels as well, like [00:07:00] talking about.

They made like a little special about the Hispanic culture and how it's perpetuated in the fandom, um, black culture as well, like being able to have those type of cup of conversations as well. Cause I know some first can kind of feel like that they have been remiss in some aspects too, and just being able to help learn from each other and see what's good representation and what's not.

Rhyner: [00:07:25] Yeah, cause there was that whole discussion going around recently about the, uh, the native American furries, um, expressing their, uh, disconnect there. You know, they were upset about the cultural appropriation going on, you know, the misuse of their mythical

Jason: [00:07:43] beast. And

Rhyner: [00:07:45] way that the furries were wearing tribal wear and, you know, and it seemed like the, uh, the furries that were like misappropriating this stuff actually did not care about, you know, the routes,

the [00:08:00] root

of where, uh, where it came from.

So they would basically just ignore whatever the heck the, uh, native American furs were saying, you know, they, they can do whatever they want. Cause it's made up it's fiction, but they're missing the point,

Jason: [00:08:15] right.

Rhyner: [00:08:16] They really don't have a right to use it in the first place, but to go the extra mile to disrespect it purposefully is kind of an excusable.

Jason: [00:08:26] Yeah. It's an, it's not excusable whatsoever because when it comes to the history, Of native Americans. It's, it's a really rough one. It's a rough one for them and their ancestors. Cause you know, they, they haven't, they, they pretty much have to deal with like a purge pretty much like way, way back in the day.

And, and so. Ed. It really has to be important for us to really be aware and actually get a chance to study and understand what these tribal marks mean, [00:09:00] how it's being used and really get a chance to listen to what others have to say, because it can, it can be really frustrating when we see people try to depict a certain culture without very little.

Without very little research and then just trying to say, Oh, well then I should be able to use it because it's all fiction. That's not the case. Like those markings have a history. And those, and that history does need to be respected regardless of how, how cool your persona looks in that kind of a attire.

You have to understand that it can be damaging to someone who is deeply rooted in the, in that history. So I think it is important for us to get to learn that.

Rhyner: [00:09:54] Oh, absolutely. I've never been to a fur con myself. So I'm not sure [00:10:00] how accurate that would be by saying this, but it sounds like, uh, furries need to focus more on the people

underneath the suits.


I don't know a

panel about washing your first suit or something like that, which is nice, obviously, but. You need to focus on the people underneath.

Jason: [00:10:18] Right. I think that's another thing that's very interesting as well. Cause I've actually had a conversation with this with my friend about the, of how.

It seems like for, especially your first of color who do suit as well, because I got a super recently, but I haven't gone to a con I have a debut to him yet, and a convention yet, which I'm hoping to soon, but we'll see how this pandemic goes as the year goes on. But, but I think when it comes to suits in general, well, yeah, it is important for us to learn about those basic things.

I think it's also. I think being able to be more welcoming. Cause sometimes it feels like [00:11:00] for kids of color who do have suits on, it's a lot easier for people to come up to them. But when they're compared to when they're not in suit. Cause I know for me personally, when I am walking around in the con space, Not a lot of people really come up to me willingly, which, you know, granted, um, depending on how big the con is, and everybody has friends with somebody it's kinda, it can be a little bit difficult to be like, to be the beat up with somebody new and you get a chance to know them and stuff, because like there's a lot going on at the same time.

But, um, I think that there are, have been some instances where it seems like there's a little bit of like, Fear or distaste, every time I go up to somebody and like, try to talk with them and it's just like, Oh, okay. So I guess I'll just find somebody else to talk with or whatever. But I think it's just being able to [00:12:00] understand that, like we are people too, we have feelings as well.

And we, and we aren't really bad people, you know, especially in, in the, um, in the furry fandom, like, I don't think it's. I don't at least, I don't think people should be like doing some stupid stuff to somebody like blatantly, but you know, it does depend on like the con on where you go to.

Rhyner: [00:12:28] So you feel like there is less of, uh, a chance to make friends with someone you've never met before.

If you're not wearing a fursuit, if you're not, you know,

Jason: [00:12:38] a little bit. Yeah. Cause I think when it comes to people with fursuits, People tend to, um, surround a first suture is more so like, uh, or instance there, there are definitely times where you're like, you see a really, really cool looking suit.

Angel's like, Oh man, I really like, I want to meet this [00:13:00] person. I really want to take pictures with them and stuff like that. And I definitely feel like. You'd be willing to go over to them more so than someone who isn't ensued haven't who is just like chilling on their own, not really doing much and stuff, but I guess it's like kind of one of those things to say that like, When you have a suit, you have more opportunity to get more attention compared to someone who isn't in suit.

And it was just like walking around and like looking at certain things and stuff like that. Cause like you got somebody who's doing that as that doesn't mean that they're willing to not talk to anyone. The, the black that they're not willing to talk to anyone. Sorry, I can't, I can't speak. Um, I think being able to just.

Have more willingness to meet up with somebody. Like if it's somebody that you just like walk around and you're like, Oh yeah, this guy [00:14:00] looks interesting. I'm going to wanna talk to him. I don't think it should be like shut down or anything like that. So yeah, I think that first, it can definitely be more of an advantage of being able to meet new people compared to not having one, because like people have that general interest in suitors.

If that makes sense.

Rhyner: [00:14:21] Yeah. It's like a big walking and stuffed animal. So, you know, they see that and they want to go over there and they want to give it a hug and take pictures, maybe, maybe 20 pictures, but, uh,

Jason: [00:14:32] you're not wrong. [laughter]

Rhyner: [00:14:34] what I can tell from like the videos and stuff, people really,

really get into a

crowding around the furry furry, wearing a fursuit, looking at the suit and whatever else.

And then it

becomes like this, this kind of like a niche thing where the first suitors are just kind of all together and stuff.

Jason: [00:14:53] Yeah. Yeah. I think also another thing when it comes to [00:15:00] fursuits, um, I feel like. It hasn't happened to me personally, obviously, cause I haven't gone to a convention with my suit yet, but I feel like tutors are also more vulnerable when it comes to people being too handsy.

If that makes sense.

Rhyner: [00:15:18] Oh, like they're reaching and touching in certain spots.

Jason: [00:15:21] Yeah. Like I, cause especially when you get later on into like the night and stuff, um, some people tend to. Go a little bit. Some people don't really understand boundaries around that time. Cause usually, you know, people like, obviously alcohol can be involved into that.

And um, some people just have a, I have get a little bit too like cuddly and stuff. So I think being able to understand the boundaries is really big for, um, for [00:16:00] conventions. Cause, I mean, cause everybody wants to have fun and try to have, and try to enjoy themselves, but you don't want to get into a situation where, um, you feel violated and stuff.

And I think fursuits they're suitors, especially since they have limited vision, if someone like looks like if your handler looks, it looks into out of the way or something and someone, um, like. Casually like grabs you somewhere where they're not supposed to, and like get out of Dodge. You wouldn't know who it was like at all.

Rhyner: [00:16:39] Oh, wow.

Jason: [00:16:41] So like, I'm sure it has happened before. Like, like I said, I haven't really experienced it myself or witnessed it, but I think that that's something that could, that could definitely be an issue if people aren't too careful. So it's just goes to show that like, Some people don't [00:17:00] understand what the boundaries are and that, uh, does need to be emphasized a little bit more as a, maybe having a panel also about like, um, understanding the do's.

And don'ts when it comes to meeting someone with w in a fur suit, too.

Rhyner: [00:17:19] Yeah, absolutely. That would definitely help out. You know, a lot of furries are candidates ruse, not the most socially, uh, No, not the most socially aware people. Yeah. Our world, you know, you spend a lot of your time communicating with other furries via

Jason: [00:17:37] the internet and yeah.

Rhyner: [00:17:41] You can say cuddles and hugs and asterisks, and that's fine. You translate that to a, in real life and you get a grab and go, but touch and that's not really cool.

Jason: [00:17:52] Yeah. It's you, you have some, like, you have to really pay attention to that and. Like consent [00:18:00] is a really big thing. So obviously the whole, you have to pretty much ask like, Hey, can I hug you?

And I'm most people will usually say yes, because, you know, it's always fun to like, be able to hug. And I know some tutors don't want to do that. Like I've seen one suitor who has like, um, a no hugging, um, Sign like attached to them somewhere. Yeah. Like they're like no hugging, no pictures, you know? And it's just like, and that's fine.

Like people don't like, not everybody I asked to, um, do the usual first suit thing is some people just want to simply just suit and have fun. They can totally do that. And I think it's very important to respect those boundaries. And understand that. Absolutely.

Rhyner: [00:18:53] Because I think too many furries are under the assumption that, you know, other furries will be into it just because they are, and that's [00:19:00] completely, uh, they should not be in that mindset at all.

They should always be asking consent. They should also always be looking for social cues.

Jason: [00:19:08] You know,

Rhyner: [00:19:09] they shouldn't be forcing themselves on this, someone else.

Jason: [00:19:12] Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's definitely true. So

Rhyner: [00:19:18] this all relates back to respecting the people that are in the first suits, you know, whether they're a furry of color, whether they are a first suiting

Jason: [00:19:28] or,

Rhyner: [00:19:29] you know, off to the side, you know, it's these little things that add up over time.

Jason: [00:19:36] Yeah. Yeah. So I think that, you know, going back into the whole, like first of color aspect, I think, um, Furries and especially in fursuits, like it's another way for us to probably be able to get into that crowd a little bit more. Cause I know like for me, especially with how I [00:20:00] sound, um, some people mistaken me for being a white dude, like some white dude up North, which is funny because I'm black and I'm from Georgia.

So, um, I think like if I met somebody while I was ensued, people will gravitate towards me. And since I'm also tall as heck, I'm 62. Oh being beacon suit would probably be having me like six, four or five. Cause I got like really long ears on my suit.

Rhyner: [00:20:29] Damn.

Jason: [00:20:30] Um, I think people will be like, Oh my gosh, this is like a giant cuddly Teddy bear.

I want to, so I will not be surprised if like that we'll get that will have me be happy, get more attention, which I don't mind because I'm an attention whore. I'm not going to lie, but. I think also being able to understand that, um, I think I also have a understanding of, since I've been in the shoes where I didn't have a suit and, [00:21:00] um, there are times where I'm not really approached at all or anything.

Like I think the only time where I have been really approached was in a Megaplex 2018. And that was actually when I bet another like, Um, person of color and, um, her family, like she was 15 and being able to talk to her and her mother, it was, it was really, it felt really nice. It was, um, a nice change of pace for me because it helped me realize that, you know, um, the future.

Is is bright in the fandom because she actually made her own suit and it looked really, really good. And I'm like, dang, she hops into that first who making, um, if she hasn't the first suit making, she's going to get stacked for, uh, for a good one for a long time, if she does decide to go into that, [00:22:00] because that just shows how much talent that, um, I for color can have, and she was only 15 at that time.

So it was, it was really amazing to see, um, to see that kind of creativity and, um, intelligence being put out there. Cause that's important, man. That is

Rhyner: [00:22:21] crazy to be so talented. And you said 15?

Jason: [00:22:24] Yeah, she was 15 at that time. So I think she's my she's probably 17 now obviously, but like. The fact that like a 15 year old girl was able to make like a very complicated sit at that.

Cause it had like, um, I think for six eyes, if I recall correctly here, remember the top of my head, but it had multiple eyes, it had a different variety of colors. Like it looked really good. And so it just goes to show that like, um, like further color, extremely creative. [00:23:00] And, um, it doesn't take much for us to show it.

Rhyner: [00:23:05] Right. It seems like the, we would have to like, you know, show off like more than the average furry in order to get some, you know, notice. And even when we do, it's like, Oh, look at this, you know, for colors thing, you know, like, I mean, you could say like

Jason: [00:23:22] a, their name. That would be cool.

Rhyner: [00:23:24] You know, that's why we make such a big deal out of it.

Jason: [00:23:27] Right. And that pretty much goes to show like when people get excited over things like with Ken cooler, pretty much being the staple of changing the landscape of the very fandom and what introducing the first Sona. I did see quite a few people, uh, trying to shut down that idea saying that, Oh, just because.

He was, um, recognized in the fandom doesn't mean that he was the first, [00:24:00] but what, but the crazy thing about that whole thing is like, sure, you won't know who was legitimately the first person to make a persona. I heard someone argue about the whole thing about, you know, the Egyptian gods. There's I don't know how best persona, but gets for cinema is, is.

A representation of you. Um, but you know, whatever, it's just the idea that the fact that like the Sona was pretty much, um, recognized the most by Ken Cougar. And that's what pretty much got other people inspired to make their own for Sona and really be able to express themselves and who they really are.

So. It's just like my buggling how people were trying to find a way to nitpick that just to take away that achievement from someone, especially when it's a, a for of color. Cause once again, it just shows [00:25:00] that like, they don't want us to feel as special as someone else or give us that limelight of being like, Hey, that's a really cool, but let's all celebrate that because we don't get that kind of recognition really.

So I'm just glad that, um, the fender was able to yeah. Introduce that. And it would have been, it would have been nice to, um, be able to show that out a little bit more. But, um, I think that just being able to mention that he was the one that kind of pretty much solidified that. And made it as a part of this community.

So if that does that doesn't count as an achievement. I don't know what, what is, so that's just like, whatever.

Rhyner: [00:25:43] Yeah. I would say for sodas are kind of a big deal in the furry realm. You know, just this thing that most, if not all furries have, you know, in some capacity.

Jason: [00:25:54] Right. And it's just like, You don't really see that in another, in other cases, [00:26:00] meaning as well, like the gaming community, they just have, um, they they're just fan of characters, like the gaming community, the anime community.

I think that only one that you could probably say that have those type of. Creative is like the Brony community, but they're kind of a subculture to furry as this would be real here

Rhyner: [00:26:22] has gemstone is

Jason: [00:26:24] yeah. Gemstone is like, so, so yeah, it's just like the, like, there's not really a lot of fandoms that really have that kind of a Vichy, you know?

And so for. Us to have that going very early on. Mind you too. It just seems like, like having that is really is a really big thing and saying that like a person who was black to be, um, the staple for about kind of like [00:27:00] the godfather pretty much. Um, it's, it's great. It's special because that's the kind of history.

Um, that we would love to see more of and having that kind of representation, even though it's really small. Um, I'm thankful for that because I think being able to express that as important,

Rhyner: [00:27:24] what I'm looking forward to is season two, because it's absolutely going to be, it's going to go into more of the,

Jason: [00:27:31] uh,

Rhyner: [00:27:32] uh, BiPAP, you know, side of things and it's going to be.

Like expensive. There's so much out there that the mainstream of furries

Jason: [00:27:41] don't know.

Rhyner: [00:27:43] Yeah. By the whole Ken Cougar thing.

Jason: [00:27:49] Yeah. I think that like the fandom part too, I think, is gonna really open a lot of people's eyes. Cause I do hope that, um, [00:28:00] we get to. See more, um, history of the struggle that we're having dealing with, uh, within the fandom today about, um, our problem with, um, all right. The firs trying to seclude us, like I know they kind of touched on it a little bit towards the end of the fandom, but I think that just that alone.

Um, could probably be in a tire documentary.

Rhyner: [00:28:30] Absolutely. Because down the rabbit hole, uh,

Jason: [00:28:33] also touched on the beginnings of the fandom and

Rhyner: [00:28:35] the bird first section,

Jason: [00:28:36] uh, took like at least like an

Rhyner: [00:28:38] hour or more of the three hours that it took to explain what the furry fandom was like. It came off as a little strange that they decided to just throw in the burn furs, like in the last,

Jason: [00:28:51] uh,

Rhyner: [00:28:52] what was it?

20 minutes of the movie.

Jason: [00:28:55] Yeah. It like, like they basically just kind of, um, [00:29:00] talked about the, um, like the bird for is above the tired of this narrative of furries being, um, the sex objects and they're just, and they want to like, Try and like remove it from the fandom entirely. Whereas just like, bro, this is going to be impossible for you to do that, but, okay.

Rhyner: [00:29:23] Yeah, I know it was, I don't know. It was kind of weird that

Jason: [00:29:26] it was, it was,

Rhyner: [00:29:28] it was furries East sex, but the burn first said furries, no sex.

Jason: [00:29:35] I don't know. Yeah. It was, it was, it definitely should have been talked about more so, but I think the reason why they kind of kept it there is because they wanted it.

They, I guess they don't want people to get burned out by the documentary.

Rhyner: [00:29:51] It's

Jason: [00:29:51] kind of like similar to, yeah,

I was unintentional, but [00:30:00] kind of like simple it's something similar to what, um, The last dance for Michael Jordan, the reason why they kind of like happen into five parts, cause it's like a 10 hour documentary. So it's like, alright, you need to give people a little bit of a break in order to, um, go into that next one.

And since they do want to mention some of the issues, cause they kind of talked about the issues within the furry community, on the tail end of things. And. And they kind of like, um, jumped from talking about the history that talking about people, people about now just to relate to what's going on. So, uh, hopefully we get a little bit more of a, of a linear thing.

Once we get into the, um, early two thousands to the 2010s. And I'm sure they're gonna be talking about those decades as well. Cause. [00:31:00] Okay, well, I'm thinking it's probably going to be talked about in the fender, which is just me speculating. Obviously I'm not in that circle to know what's going to be coming up next, but I feel like, um, obviously the, um, uh, the BiPAP would definitely be a discussion.

Uh, I think for. Two, uh, first Ubers and the whole pop youfor, um, aspect is probably going to be talked about. Cause that's another thing that a lot of people feel some type of way about that. So I think that could be something, um, that needs to be discussed. And, uh, gosh, what else? And of course like the alt right, for a problem and some of the issues that we have to deal with even more so, so hopefully we'll be able to see those topics we talked about in that next, um, documentary that they're going to be planning and, um, really kind of just, um, [00:32:00] really talk about those issues.

That could be that it, that is looming the community. Cause you know, not every community is perfect. And I think being able to acknowledge that it's, there should be important just like with our country as a whole needs to do that, to really just be like open up those old scars and be like, yeah, this is what happened.

And we're not as perfect as we want it to be. So let's just kind of how it is. That's, that's just my thinking throughout it.

Rhyner: [00:32:37] No, I totally agree with you. Like we shouldn't pretend to be perfect when we're not,

Jason: [00:32:41] and

Rhyner: [00:32:42] we definitely should not worship artists because they can draw the squiggly.

Jason: [00:32:49] Yeah. That's and that's another big, that's another big problem is just, yeah, I don't know.

I think it's because of the fact that when, when people [00:33:00] draw so well and. I just think that, um, people who draw very, very well, who has a good platform within either YouTube or Twitch people try to put them in the celebrity logo, which in this case is poppy fur. And I know a lot of people don't like that term, but I think personally, I feel like it kind of gives.

I think the fuck on it is overblown because my definition of it happy for is it's a celebrity. Like there are plenty of celebrities that do fantastic things. Sure. They have a lot of money that people see them as above status, but it's not like all of them are shitheads, you know? So I think that like the same thing can apply to people who consider themselves who people put in the whole poppy first section.

It's [00:34:00] not that often poppy furs are assholes. It's just that all that all probably have some sense to have a, have a, have a major platform. And, um, they are able to help inspire. Other people cause there's some who, um, looks at Virginia story and you know, they relate to that and they feel like that.

They're the reason why that, he's the reason why they're in the fandom in the first place. There are some stories like that. So I think for, um, for. First of color. I think we do need that kind of voice as well. Cause they're the only person that we really have of his, his Sonic Fox. And of course, it's going to change over time.

But, you know, when you, when you hear, Hey, who's when someone asks, Hey, who's the, um, can you give me like a, a M a for of color? [00:35:00] Can you name me one, the first person, the first thing you could think of a Sonic Fox. He's the first person. Well, the first person, um, that, um, Like there, they will be the first person that, um, people will think of that.

That's just kinda what it is. So, um, of course, uh, they have a very big, um, they have a very big voice considering the fact that not only are they in the farrier community, but they're also in the gaming community, which we know that's a whole nother, um, A can of worms, um, in this limelight. But, uh, I hope that we'll be able to see more firs of color, um, that that'll, that'll reach that kind of status, you know, and be able to, um, inspire other, um, Furries to really, um, be the best version of [00:36:00] themselves.

Cause I think that, that's another thing that I really hope to see in the, in the near future is being able to, um, show that for that, um, guys with our skin can have a big voice in the community as well. Cause I think that's really important.

Rhyner: [00:36:21] Yeah. Furries should be propping each other out. Uh, propping each other up and connecting with each other, helping the fandom move forward,

you know, progress and moving away from like the festering, like hate and the, like


Unremarkable parts that we don't like to talk about, like, you know, the altright and stuff like that, you


we've only had talks about outright

banning them, stuff like that. Uh, yeah.

I feel like we should keep moving away from them and [00:37:00] towards inclusion, you know?

Jason: [00:37:02] Yeah.

Rhyner: [00:37:03] More BIPOC, furries, voices. We're going to have more, uh, figureheads for younger BIPOC furries to look up to and so forth.

And, uh, if I may go back to you, what you said about Sonic Fox, uh, how do you feel about them essentially, uh, representing you.

Jason: [00:37:24] I think, I think for them, they, I think that, uh, one of the things that I really appreciate about, about Sonic Fox is that they do a really good job of, um, really just expressing themselves on a policy, on a puddle, but unapologetically.

So I think that's. One big thing is that they come into the gym to the space and be [00:38:00] like, Hey, I'm here. This is me. This is what I do. And if you have a problem with that, then you can fuck off. So I think when it comes to that, I think that they do a good job in expressing that they are not afraid to show who they are.

And even though that sometimes, um, I do think that, that they, they get it well, two head Strong's. Um, I think they understand the consequences of doing, doing things like that. And I respect that. Uh, I do, I will say, um, it will be nice to see other people, um, be uplifting to like, um, I think like, If they actually take the time to talk about other, um, uh, first of color and like kinda talk them up and really give them a [00:39:00] look and help them with their platform.

I think that'd be, that would be good as well. So that way there'll be more to, um, spread. There'll be more, um, opportunities for, um, friends of color to really. Have a, have a standing within the community. Because as I said earlier, like the first person people think of is Sonic Fox because they are known to be one of the best fighting game players in the world.

Excuse me. Um, the best fighting players in the world right now. And I think that that's. Really great that, um, they're being acknowledged as much as they do and try and OD Powell and represent us as much as possible and the gaming community, because I know the reason why they are the way they [00:40:00] act, especially within those spaces is because like, There are a lot of issues within the gaming community it's in itself, especially with the recent news that has been going on about that, which I'm not going to get too into

Rhyner: [00:40:18] our discussion would last like three hours if we go into all that.

Jason: [00:40:21] Yeah. Yeah. Right. So like, it's just, you know, how real, how now it's a very like toxic space. So. Like, if you don't have that thick skin, it will pretty much destroy you like outright. If you have that kind of platform, because you already know that people will come in with all of their like distasteful memes and, you know, try and put you into a part where they break [00:41:00] you.

But. So you got to show them that you're not afraid of that and satisfies has done that, but it would be nice to be well to see if he's able to like uplift, um, somebody else who isn't a part of the gaming community. Who's. You know, who's mostly just known for being in the furry community because we still need those voices to be heard as well.

Cause not everybody is a M is a C as a career in the, um, in the, uh, FGC community. So. I think that that's really important for him to do cause um, the more, the more voices that we have, um, within the space, the better, and that's when we start having more representation. So that's, I think that where my standing is, cause I think that, um, they do a good job, but I think the one thing that they [00:42:00] need to do is be able to uplift other, um, for, as of color when they're in that standing as well.

Rhyner: [00:42:07] So his headassness really serves him well, because he's in like otherwise toxic


right. Speak his mind, or he has to GTFO, you know, fair enough. Uh, when he was expecting that award on stage, he pissed off the Republicans that were like, Oh, it was a fan of you till you went on that stage and said, blah, blah, blah.

And he was like, I don't care, Bye bitch.

Jason: [00:42:31] Right? Like, that's the thing they, I know for like recently it's like, I don't know. It's just, it just seems like, like for, uh, the gaming community, that's a lot of people who get really, really sensitive when you start talking about. Political stuff, which obviously that's a lot of that.

That's a lot of people in general, really. But, um, if you say anything that is an attack to them, [00:43:00] they get super, super pissed and they want to take you down as fast as possible. And so we has to be able to be the one to fight back. Cause, um, I know a lot of people within the furry community, you really agree with.

How he handled with how we handle it, but at the same time, um, we have to understand that like the game community is a lot more cutthroat compared to the furry community and they have no choice, but to kind of, um, Try not to back down because as soon as you like try and be hesitant in and seem a little bit afraid, that's when they'll try and overwhelm you as much as possible to completely like ruin who you are as a person, like take away your humanity and never be able to speak out again.

When you feel [00:44:00] like there's some misrepresentation going on. So. I think that's kind of what the main thing is for, for, uh, for them and why they, um, act the way they act, how they are. So headstrong, how they just don't give a fuck about what you say about them. And I can appreciate that. I can appreciate the, the, the sense of backing down and not backing down and, you know, show me that.

Um, if that your words can't hurt me or get to do better than that to, um, really destroy by, by sense of wellbeing. I know for me personally, I don't really act. In that sort of way. I'm always the person who's tried to be reasonable and try, and I'm talking to more calm in a more calm, calmer fashion, but, um, [00:45:00] I can understand why he, why they do what they do.

And, uh, I don't think it should be seen as like a negative thing or as much of a negative thing as some people like to portray it as because of what he has to deal with. Um, and that other community, but I think, um, what they've been doing in trying to help support, um, other people that are in need, like when he, when they know when it's time to humble themselves, they could do that.

I think, I think there were, there were definitely a few times that he has, that he has done things to, um, to be humbled because you have to have some sort of humbleness, like no matter what, no matter who you are. So, um, I think, uh, they're doing a pretty alright job at [00:46:00] representing us as a whole. But I think it could be nice to see other voices as well, because you know, we're not all like him.

And I think being able to show like the different variety of, um, first of color, that, um, that'll show that, Hey, we're just as human as, um, other people who are white and things like that.

Rhyner: [00:46:30] It would be nice to see him try to promote,

uh, you know,

other furs of color in the LGBT spectrum, because most important he's doing to, uh, I mean, he says, they say, sorry, they say like, uh, I'm gay and that's cool, you know, because people need to see it and looking back on how the handled the award situation, you know, at the time I was Kuringgai a little bit, you know, it's a little crinkle, but, uh, [00:47:00] you know, the gaming.

The gamers at large, aren't used to seeing that kind of thing.

Jason: [00:47:08] No,

Rhyner: [00:47:09] they just aren't. You know, most of the audience were like, I don't know, like call of duty, modern warfare people are,


street fighter, whatever.

Jason: [00:47:23] Right.

Rhyner: [00:47:25] This queer furry gets on stage and accepts an award. In their suits. What,

Jason: [00:47:33] what do you do with that?

Rhyner: [00:47:35] Yeah, I just have to respect it.


their stage right now. And I don't think that's a position that a lot of people, um, would normally do.

Jason: [00:47:45] right.

Rhyner: [00:47:46] It created like this rift, this like rippling effect. And I feel like maybe yeah, in the future, Sonic Fox will, you know, it'll Dawn on them and they will start, you know, maybe quote retweeting or something.

[00:48:00] Uh, Some more, uh, black furry creatives and they can start that whole process where everybody's propping each other up and maybe we'll get somewhere there.

Jason: [00:48:14] Yeah. Cause I think at the end of the day, um, he is the first, uh, I prefer of color to truly be recognized outside of the furry fandom. Cause I'm sure there are are few, um, firs of color who do have like somewhat of recognizable status within the community.

But like, again, like I alluded to earlier with, uh, Ken Cougar, um, Sonic Fox was the person that really solidified that. First of color are, um, are here. Like they're, they're a big thing. [00:49:00] Um, like usually a lot of times we see, um, guest of honors in conventions. They're usually all, um, um, they're usually all like white dudes, like, um, or like white men and women, which is fine because being able to show out, um, Those who have done so much for the community is important and stuff.

But I think that, um, Sonnen, cos we'll, we'll be the first of hopefully many, uh, we just gotta be able to T like they have to be able to, um, help out in that regard as well. Like if, um, like if her of color starts becoming big, Then they'd be like, you know, I'm going to go ahead and like, you know, devil's like, Hey, yo, look at this, look at this shit.

This is dope. And with his status, knowing that how some people can scarily [00:50:00] be loyal, they could be, um, so loyal, but it's kinda scary. Uh, they will be able to go and check you out and see how they feel about you. And I think once we, once, um, they get to that point, then, you know, I think that they're doing their job very well, but of course that's just like a wait and see.

Rhyner: [00:50:23] Yeah, it is kind of a wait and see situation to see what he, what they do with that power that they've been given or, you know, worked for. Uh, we do need to move on though, because

Jason: [00:50:35] yeah, yeah.

Rhyner: [00:50:36] 48 minutes in, so, okay. So. What got you interested

in the furry fandom in the first place

we've been talking about the furry fandom.

I would like

to know what got you into it.

And if it's a big part of who you are now.

Jason: [00:50:52] Cool. All right. So I recognized the furry community when I [00:51:00] was about, um, I think I was about 15 or 16 at the time. I wouldn't say I was officially a part of that fandom at that time. Um, really, but I first really discovered it, um, around there.

And it was around the time when I was looking around in deviant art stuff. Cause, uh, I was, uh, I was originally from a, a, a voice acting community as well. That was a part that, that did, that did a lot of animations. So, um, Like the it's mainly like the, like the animation, the animated series that focuses on Wolf packs and warrior cats and things of that nature.

So it was pretty much like, um, it was kind of where I got a little bit of ice standing, um, doing those type of projects and it was fun. [00:52:00] And a lot of those artists had deviant art. So I made a deviant art and when I was looking around, um, I was like looking at some sports related stuff cause I am a sports fan.

And what I discovered was a, uh, an art piece that featured a, uh, Elian basketball player, uh, playing some, you know, Playing basketball, obviously. So, um, when I saw that, I was like, wow, this looks really interesting. And I just saw this person's gallery. And a lot of their, um, a lot of their work is going towards that idea as he players in like different jerseys.

A different species. And I was, uh, and I was really hooked to that idea. And so I looked into one of the descriptions and it [00:53:00] said that it was the, but it was from a project called the furry basketball association. And I was like, Oh, okay. I want to see what that is. And so when I looked in there, Um, that's when I noticed that it was more than just, just the art.

There was just like a whole community that was focused on the idea of furries playing professional basketball. And I thought that was like the coolest thing. So I learned a little bit. Well, like, I didn't really make an entire, I didn't really make a account there or anything at that time. As of yet, I just mainly like lurked and that's what got me into creating a for affinity count as well to just simply, um, work in stuff like that.

And I didn't really like start saying that. Yeah, I'm a part of the furry [00:54:00] fandom until I turned 18. Uh, shortly after I graduated. Cause I felt like that, um, considering how young I was, and since I was on for , there were going to be those type, that type of art. So I do, I was like, okay, uh, I'm just gonna look around a little bit before really kind of diving into it, you know?

But, um, I assume, but even before then, when I was like 17, I started kind of making my own persona in a way. And it was a bat still, like I've kind of kept the same bat all my life, but he was completely different to what he is now. Was he neon? No, he wasn't neon. He, he, he still had like the blue, red color scheme that I got going on [00:55:00] now.

Um, but, uh, he was basically like a little small biggie boy. Like he was like a Chibi type for, you know what I mean? But yeah. Um, As soon as I like turned 18, I finally took the courage to go into that, um, into that space again, and really, uh, play. And once I did created, um, a character within that community, and I've kind of like blossomed since like I.

Pretty much became a full fledged furry because of that, because of my interest in that project. And I'm still in it today, it's really been fun to, to be a part of and [00:56:00] really, uh, kind of express writing stories and commissioning art of the certain characters. And it was great. Um, I think another thing.

That really kind of helped me become who I am is starting to pay Pete and the, to my, my local community as well. And that got me to know one of my closest friends. Uh, that's also a for of color, um, too, and we've been buddies for about three or four years now. So, um, I think that like, Without discovering that image.

I wouldn't really be where I am today. I probably would still be depressed as fuck. Um, cause you know, I've had those types of issues, but the thing bike, the furry fandom really helped me feel. Um, You know, more [00:57:00] proud of myself, it'd be more open to, um, being who I am. So I think really the combination of the furry fandom.

And of course me being a part of the feet of me getting into theater, because that was around the time when I was, um, finally figuring out that like acting are being a part of that industry is something that I really wanted to do in life. So I think the combination of those two pretty much made me who I am today.

And, um, I think without those, um, I will be very different. I think I would be in a very different space than what I am now.

Rhyner: [00:57:44] So on one hand you had the furry fantasy basketball team and the other hand you had theater.

Jason: [00:57:52] Yeah. Yeah. So I think like the combination of those two really kind of made me be [00:58:00] more outgoing and, uh, also be able to, uh, Um, kind of figure out who, of what I am sexually in and things of that nature and helped me discover who I am.

And I'm thankful for that. Uh, I'm thankful for all the friends that I've been able to, to meet. Um, as the time went on and, um, the memories that I've made ha is, is special. And I think that that's something that I will always cherish throughout life, even after, um, dot forbid if I, if it does, if there is an after, um, I decided, I decided to say, you know what?

I think that, um, I'm ready to close this chapter in my life, which probably isn't gonna happen for awhile. So, but yeah, I think that that's really the main thing.

[00:59:00] Rhyner: [00:59:00] Oh, damn. That's actually really nice. Helps you, uh, get all acquainted with yourself.

Jason: [00:59:11] Yeah. You know, and of course,

Rhyner: [00:59:14] going back to that tidbit about your sexuality, uh, how do you feel, uh, being a furry changed that for you?

How did it help develop?

Jason: [00:59:24] Well, I think it's, it's funny because I didn't really, I didn't really think about my sexuality growing up to be honest with you. Um, of course, like. When, when you're really young, you get curious about certain things. If you see something like, Whoa, okay. That's something like, to be honest with you, like the first time that I really saw that was, I think it was a funny experience.

Cause I was like, I think it was 13 at the time. And like [01:00:00] we, me and my, my sisters, or trying to like look at Pokemon ships. And there was this one where it was like, um, uh, type login X Tyron is our, I dunno if you have, you know, this one or not, but when we searched that click, the first link. We saw something that we knew we weren't supposed to see, but I was very confused of what was going on, especially like down there, so, well, how was like, ah, okay.

What's going on? What's happening?

Rhyner: [01:00:36] Uh .

Jason: [01:00:39] Yeah, it was like, uh, it was, uh, it was, it was Pokemon, it was a spooky spot. Yeah. Like we were, we were unintentionally looking for this. We were just like looking at like shipping. Oh yeah, this is a good one. Well, shit, this is cute. Nope. This is not what

we sign up for it,

but [01:01:00] I think that's what kind of started be like looking around and stuff.

And like, the more I did, um, at. I thought it was just like me, you know, having fun or whatever. I really didn't think about my best situation that time, but what really did have me think about it was, um, around my, uh, senior year in high school, uh, there, we had, you know, the whole senior week thing where, um, There we have a one week dedicated to us doing a lot of activities, traveling and stuff.

Um, there was one time when, one of one acquaintance that I knew, oops. Um, one acquaintance that I knew, uh, we talked a little bit and we were just like, Hey, we're talking about like our future after we're done here with high school and stuff, he [01:02:00] actually admitted to me that he had, um, a crush on me and.

That's when I thought about like, Oh, I didn't, I didn't really realize that. Or did really thought about dating another guy. So that's when that started for me, when I was thinking about, Oh, What if he actually asked me, what would I say? And that's when, like, of course that was around the time when I started really getting into the fandom.

And, you know, that's when I start realizing after all these times where I've asked where I've had crushes on, um, also at high school and. Be hesitating. And then everybody just like, no, we wouldn't have paid you anyway. That, that sort of theme, when I started [01:03:00] talking, thinking about like, um, other guys, I was like, Oh, I mean, aye.

Aye, aye. I think that'd be okay with that. And. I actually, during my time in the, um, in the FBA, I did have that kind of feeling for, um, someone, sadly. They never, I don't think they really thought the same way for me. They're not in the project anymore, but, um, I think like being able to realize the feelings that I've had.

I think that pretty much helped solidify that, um, of, of me being bisexual, because it's just, it's just one of those things where it's like, I've had feelings for, uh, both genders in that way. Cause I feel like. Um, when it comes to being attractive, [01:04:00] I do think that it's more than just, uh, what makes the PP hard.

Uh, yeah, but I think it's just more so than what makes you sexual li attractive, but I think it's also, um, really the, the feeling of love, like. You know, you're willing to do anything to really help them see that. And I've had that happen to me as well, with one for who was a part of the FBA at that time.

And, um, there, there was one time where, um, when I was talking to him, I did, I, I did get really emotional because. Uh, it was just some drama that was going on with him and some other person. And, you know, I was in tears just, you know, expressing my worry for him. So I think that that, that, that on its own can tell you, [01:05:00] like, it was definitely totally that I'm certainly not straight.

So it's, I think that's pretty much has helped me figure myself out and stuff. So that's just kind of. Uh, how it, it, it, it made me feel, um, more happy with who I am as a person, but that's experiences.

Rhyner: [01:05:22] We should put them on a tee shirt. Definitely not straight.

Jason: [01:05:28] Is this like, you know, um, I it's like one of those, like, I wouldn't say that I'm gay, but I'm definitely not straight. It's like the perfect, um, that's like the perfect. Uh, by shirt, really, to be honest, definitely not straight.

Rhyner: [01:05:47] Oh man. That is a crazy story. I'm glad that you are able to express yourself

in the fandom that way. Yeah.

A lot of furs actually feel like, feel more comfortable in the fandom. Being able to express [01:06:00] themselves, like explore things that they never considered before. And. I mean, otherwise they would just be, I don't know, drifting through


Jason: [01:06:12] Right.

Rhyner: [01:06:13] They might be able to find themselves some other way, like through a bar or going to see the grinder meetups or something.


Something about the, you know,


The super queer environment of like the free fandom. Like no matter what chat you go to, no matter


FFA forum you type in, there's going to be like at least


person on the LGBT spectrum.

And that's kind of comforting.

Jason: [01:06:41] Yeah. I think, um, with, I think the furry fandom is kind of like, I don't want to say diet Coke version of what, like. It is a fully be a part of the LGBT community. Cause I know that like, um, [01:07:00] like I, I haven't been on Grindr before personally, but a lot of the dudes don't really have that kind of sense of, um, what's a good word for it.

Like they're not. As sincere, like, like, I mean, it's Grindr. So like, you know, most of them are just like, Hey, I'm just here for a quick fuck. And that's it. So, um,

Rhyner: [01:07:28] not a positive sexual expression

Jason: [01:07:30] it's like right.

Rhyner: [01:07:32] Middling on mediocrely or, cause they're just concerned about getting a away.

Jason: [01:07:39] Right. Just being able to get a quick nut and be done with it.

Rhyner: [01:07:42] Yeah. They want a boyfriend. owo I want a boyfriend send tweet.

Jason: [01:07:48] Oh yeah. Like I think like, because the fact that, um, this fandom is more built on, um, having that platonic [01:08:00] relationship that like you get to see other people like. Kind of explore a lot more seeing how, how far they can go when it comes to that embrace of love and acceptance.

And, um, like going back to my experience with this one person that I had a genuine feelings for, I, he was my first, he was the first person that I ever, um, Had that kind of, um, interaction with it. It did feel very special to me. Um, and I don't regret it either because it was something that, um, we both felt that, uh, it's something that we wanted to do.

And, uh, I'm thankful for that. And I really appreciate that. Um, So I think that like, [01:09:00] um, being able to build that kind of relationship and really get to know one another is very important to me because, you know, if we just decide to fool around with no real substance and no real, um, attachment to it, it doesn't really feel a special.

So, uh, that's why I think that like the fandom, you're able to have more chances of that. Like obviously, um, one night stands do happen within the fence. Like there are people who are, you know, Of the sexual, but at the same time, um, I think that we have more opportunity to actually get a chance to talk to one another, really get to know each other.

And, you know, we can do a couple of teases here and there, but it does feel genuine. It does feel like that I have a connection with you. [01:10:00] And, um, if we do end up. Um, being able to embrace one another in that certain way, then it would feel much more special compared to, um, someone who doesn't have any sort of profile picture say, Hey, what you doing sends, Dick pic.

Want to get late.

Rhyner: [01:10:28] It's having that genuine connection

with another person that makes it special.

It's not just the act itself. Cause I mean, you know, or you can flip on grindr and send a picture of your booty hole and you know, you have a guy over in like 10 minutes that could kill you or put a condom on, you know?

Jason: [01:10:46] Yeah.

Rhyner: [01:10:47] But, um, yeah, it's. It's actually kind of a good thing that furries just kind of cling to each other in that way. Like, even if it is kind of inadvertently

[01:11:00] Jason: [01:11:00] not obnoxious sometimes. Yeah. It can't be. Cause like, you know, there, there are definitely times where, um, someone comes in just, you know, Wants to give you everything tells them how much they loved you, how once, um, they really want to be here, which I'm not a really big fan of the word mate, personally, considering.

What the technical term for me is, but I digress, uh, um, like, you know, being seen in one of the you're me, I want to give you everything. You're just like, wow, this is overwhelming. I don't know what to do with all this.

Rhyner: [01:11:38] I have an artist friend and he set up a telegram account and he would get these random DMS from furries.

And he would like, you know, engage in some small talk and, you know, he would do the asterix, a hug. And the cuddles. And then, you know, after one or two days, this furry would just be like, um, I have to tell you something, uh, I, I [01:12:00] love you. I want to come see you. I want to be your boyfriend. And, um, you know, all this stuff just randomly dropped on him just because he's nice.

He would always ask why me, because you're so nice to me. And. That's all they had, but he was nice. They didn't know anything else about him besides the fact that he, I drew pictures of Pokemon and not that Tyrone or char one, but he drew it, woke him up nice person that engaged in small talk with them and suddenly that's the.

That means you should be declaring your love for them obviously,

Jason: [01:12:38] right? Yeah. Like, yeah. And cause it's, it's, it's great that people really want to have that for relationship. And I've said this a plenty of people as well. Um, you can't find love, but love can find you. And the only way to really, for that to happen is to actually get a [01:13:00] chance to know the other person, because.

You know, just because they're being nice to you and are willing to talk to you, does it automatically mean, Oh, he must genuinely have feelings for me. I think this, once again goes back to the, um, uh, you know, of how, um, some firs don't have that social awareness or haven't had an opportunity to be. As social as they need to know, which is which it makes sense because you know, you never know no what their background is before they even got into the fandom.

Maybe they haven't had the opportunity to have any like real, genuine friends to feel for, especially for those who are on the younger side of things. And. When heart, when hormones start to kick in, you never know what you're going to get.

Rhyner: [01:13:56] Too many hormone brain go stupid.

Jason: [01:13:59] Yeah. [01:14:00] Right. So, so I think that like, when people are so dumb, trying to find that, that, that guy, because, um, when you do see, um, furries.

Who decide to, um, tie the knot in marriage, not, not by the way you think people decide to like, take, go to that next step. Um, a lot of people really, you know, feel genuine. It feels like Ben, it would be great to have something like that when you see things like that. That's something you want to gravitate towards because that's that whole sense of true happiness.

But I know, um, for me, I think that, um, you can't really find happiness in others if you can't find happiness in yourself. And so I think being able, like, if you [01:15:00] want to be friends, With the person that you've just met or you just commissioned? I think that's fine. I think obviously we have to separate the friendship and business side of things.

Cause there are some, um, frees who only use certain platforms for business inquiries and that's it. Um, but. I think that if you want to be friends with that person, you can shoot your shot. Like, I certainly, you know, um, sent a message for somebody that, um, I wanted to get to know him a bit more and got totally shut down, which I'm like, okay, that's fine.

But like, there's not, there's not much you could do in that regard. But I'm prepared, but when you do get those opportunities to do so, just know that like, cause someone is willing to want to talk with you. Um, [01:16:00] finally does not mean that they have like, genuine, like to have that kind of interest in, you know, if that makes any sense, like they don't want to like dive into that kind of relief if, um, They don't really know you like that.

So it is important for us as firs to understand that, um, small talk is just small talk. And when you do say that, Hey, how you doing? I miss you, uh, especially with the, I miss you. Like, cause I miss you. It's like so dangerous. Like I've had it. Some people give that to me. And it's just like, dang, you must have thought of media.

Oh, thought of me a lot. And you can't really just say I miss you too. Cause that might get missed concept that that might like be thought of completely [01:17:00] different to what you try to meet to be because like the whole, I miss you miss like, Oh my gosh, I love you. I want some, I want to be able to, it makes me feel special and stuff.

I'm just like,

Rhyner: [01:17:14] Yeah. I don't know what to say. It's like an inherently, a clingy statement to make.

Jason: [01:17:20] Yeah, it is. It feels like, it feels like that. Oh, man. I am dependent of you, like

Rhyner: [01:17:28] yeah. Kind of like, am I your only friend, bro? Like, you don't want to say

that cause that's right.

But you're thinking it you're like, ah, do you talk to anybody else?


Jason: [01:17:38] like it's just like one of those things. That's why it's kind of hard for me to like, especially talking to somebody, someone who's younger than me. It could definitely be hard because, um, I think for a lot of us, we've been in their shoes before where they don't really well. They don't, I feel like they have a lot of friends to go [01:18:00] to and talk with.

And so. Um, being able to talk with others or if they haven't talked to somebody else. I think that always because I I'm not that good or I'm a piece of shit. I did something wrong with it. No, it's just, some people may be more busier than others or they feel they just need some space. Yeah. Yeah.

Rhyner: [01:18:23] Not one single person.

That's going to be wholly focused on your existence,

Jason: [01:18:28] you know? Right. Like I know one person who I've kind of been on and off talking with is very recently, um, you know, every time, like there was one time where I was like a little bit upset. I was upset. A couple of dates filled with some news that have occurred.

Um, That I witnessed on Twitter that kind of got me into a very, um, upsetting mood. Um, especially considering the fact of like what they, what they've done to kind of [01:19:00] help to try and help the BLM movement within the fandom. Uh, I, when, um, that certain thing that was discovered and what they did it did, it made me feel some type of way.

And. When they like messaged me. Um, I just told him like, look, I'm not in a good mood. And I just, I was about like, why I was upset because I just didn't really want, I want to get into it. I was just, I didn't want to get into like a screaming match or whatever, but I decided, you know, genuinely, I just said people, I just said like people, because there was so many things that was going on with.

Within and out of the community that, um, when I said people, that person automatically assumed that, Oh, did. Are you referring to me? And I'm like, no. [01:20:00] Why, why does that have to be about you or all the time? Like, Oh my gosh, like, I'm like, no. So I stopped talking to him after that. I would just like, like, I'm going to start yelling at you for saying that.

So I took a, like, I was like, Um, it's a whole thing with, like, if someone just says, Hey, I'm not doing very well. And I don't really feel like talking about it, then don't automatically assume that it's about you. Like, just be able to be like, okay, I understand. Um, if you need me, I'm here. So that leaves the door open for like, you know what?

I am going to talk to them about it. So calmed down and, you know, express my concerns. But if you automatically just go ahead and say like, Oh, uh, are you referring to me? Did I do something wrong? That it makes me feel even less one, one to talk to you about it? Cause it's just like, no. Why, why are you, why are you making it seem [01:21:00] like that?

Um, it's a problem with you is when it's really not. So I think that, um, We need to understand that when people need space, we do need to respect that. Like I don't try and go out to message a lot of people, because I know that, um, like if some people are busy, then they're busy. Like I have other things that I can do.

I can edit a video. I could play a game. Like there's so many other things that we can, that we, that we have, um, at, in hand. So that we don't really have to talk to everybody every day. We know what he really has a lot of time for that. So that's just kinda how it is.

Rhyner: [01:21:48] Exactly. I couldn't have said it better myself and I we're wrapping up.

Now. I'm going to have to ask you the last question you read the forward.

Jason: [01:21:58] Yeah.

[01:22:00] Rhyner: [01:21:59] So with the black lives matter movement going around, uh, how do you feel about. The things that are going on right now. And how do you feel like they'll affect

the future?

Jason: [01:22:12] Um, I think how I feel like the timing of this is really, I don't want to say perfect, but it's the timing of everything that has happened has really.

Started to making this movement truly a movement because, um, with the BLM has been over gone a lot longer than this, but it doesn't really get talked as much because of the fact that, um, every, like the other news that happened, um, that featured [01:23:00] with. That's next to it. I kind of like buries it into the ground, like with, um, like the only time where people really started thinking about it was way back in 2016 when Colin Kaepernick took the knee and everybody was basically hating on him for doing that because they think it was.

A dig against the troops when it wasn't that it was, um, about the police brutality. He said that all times, but no one was willing to take that for an answer. And now going years later, even though that we have seen people, um, unfortunately be murdered, uh, by the police that are, are people of color. Um, I think what's what happened with George Floyd and how he [01:24:00] got killed, especially, um, with, during the time of the pandemic and a lot of people really staying home and there weren't, there aren't really any sort of distractions.

That's what pretty much cause everybody to pay attention to that. And with all the other ones that have happened as well. Like, you know, um, the case of Brianna Taylor coming back up that happened even much prior to that. And of course also with, um, uh, Monde, Opry and, uh, Rayshaun Brooks, two people who died that are a part of my hometown.

Um, has really pretty much added more fuel, um, into the movement. And I think that with how strong it has gone right now, um, [01:25:00] I, I think that it's going to be a longterm change and I think that, like, this is something that we can't ignore and I know, especially like recently, um, With everything that has happened, thins, um, where people who are like demonstrators, I don't with the demonstrators that have done, um, some damage to the community.

Like I know, um, very recently a little girl that was in Atlanta. Um, was unfortunately shot and killed, um, by people who were, um, who, that they're there, they're there for the movement, um, for that to happen. I think it's just like one of those things where like, okay, Um, we have to understand that for us, in order for us to continue driving to where we need to be, we also have to be able to hold each other [01:26:00] accountable as well, because, Mmm.

I really hate that when people use the whole like black on black crime statistic and say that all we're more for threat to each other than the police, which. Which I personally don't think that is true. Um, we, there, there is that problem of us go resorting to violence and that sort of way, and we need to do a better job at, um, holding each other accountable and going for methods that doesn't involve, um, us ending up hurting each other at that point.

So, um, for me, I think that like once we start getting that voice, cause, um, another thing that's very unique about it is if I, there really isn't like one true person that you can resort to. [01:27:00] It may like this is the leader of the movement right here, that there really isn't an MLK like figure right now, will that person show up possibly unit?

You never know. But, um, until then I think that when it comes to the BLM movement mint, we are striving for the better. And I think that like, it's going to really impact, um, this country and this world as a whole, because we're seeing this worldwide, like it's gotten to the point where we are starting to see a lot of.

True colors now with the number of people who have spoken out, um, against the BLM movement showing how little they think of us, um, both and within the [01:28:00] world and the fandom itself too. So I think a lot of people were saying that, Oh, this needs to die out. It's going to die out soon. I don't really see this dying out.

Um, at all. I think we're just getting started, especially with how, um, we're hearing news of like lynchings that are happening and, um, the police not taking accountability for, um, The people who are, who are, who, who do, who do these crimes. We need to be able to continue to combat that and really express that, um, while that, that, yes, there are people who.

Um, don't know how to express that in the most peaceful way we still need to be listened to. And we, and the only way to really prevent these [01:29:00] things from happening is for the government and, um, the political leaders to do what they can to help support the communities that are struggling because with the whole like black on black crime thing, A lot of it is because a lot of people are trying to survive because, um, I I've been in those situations myself as well, where I've been in bad neighborhoods.

And a lot of it is mainly because people are trying to survive to the next day. You don't know when your life is going to be on the line. So. It's just being able to make, to try and get those communities out of that status of really being a, a war zone. And the only way to do that is to fund them and being able to, um, give these young kids.

Um, [01:30:00] an outlet for mentorship and stuff like that. So, um, and so I'm just saying, Hey, you just guys need to work hard to be better. And it's just, no, it's just like, you got to give us the opportunity to be better because we don't get that opportunity. And I think that with what's going on right now, Um, being able to be like, Hey, let's not spend so much money on policing instead of giving and spreading some of that responsibility out.

And, um, I think it'll help us get there for the better. And I think that like, this is, this may go on, um, for the rest of the year in all honesty, because there are plenty of places where it's not slowing down just because the media has stopped showing it doesn't mean it's not happening because it is still very much happening.

Rhyner: [01:30:51] Yeah, exactly. I mean, You know, when this whole thing started it, the media was eating it up and everything, but then, you know, the [01:31:00] reporters were getting attacked and they were coming to realize that the policemen were not in fact on their side, no matter how much they, they reported that the police were on the right or how much they cut the, uh, the footage to make it look like the police brutality.

It wasn't as bad as a, in

actuality, it was.

The fact of the matter is that they got kind of, you know, they're

tired of it, you know, bored of it,

whatever. And they wanted to give you, they're trying to push this sense that the movement is slowing down by not showing it on the mainstream media, but not publishing articles about, um, how it's thriving, uh, but how it's slowly starting to die down.

And they're going to be gone by the end of July and all this stuff, which is not true. People are still out there marching in waves. The police are getting tired, overworked, underpaid, et cetera, et cetera.

Jason: [01:31:52] Right. Awesome.

Rhyner: [01:31:54] Absolutely. Beat those cops down. Don't let them sleep. Don't let them [01:32:00] continually, uh, oppress just normal people just because they got, you know, Hell.

They, they, they could even like, not even have a high school diploma and they could be out there beating you to death, tasing, you know, shooting, you, taking pictures with your body, laughing about it with the boys, you know?

Jason: [01:32:20] Right, right. And I think another thing is just no matter how many times they try and pretty much.

Label everybody as criminals and thugs or whatever, for the small percent of people who are a part of that, who are just mainly there to do some destruction, um, don't let that image try and steer you away from what is important. And when I started, because. It's unfortunate that things like this happen, but, um, just like how everybody wants to use the whole [01:33:00] barn Luther chain quote of, um, saying that riots should be the answer.

He also just said, he also even says in that same interview, mind you, that the reason why riders are happening, because it's the voices. Of the unheard, like this is their way of speaking out about their oppression and what they have dealt with. Like, heck when we seeing, um, these, um, these folks tearing down these Confederate buildings or the not buildings, but the Confederate statues.

And that's another way of them saying that. We don't want this anymore. Like, this is, this is their image of taking down the oppression because this whole idea of like, Oh, they're trying to erase history. And it's just like, no trying to [01:34:00] erase the erase it. We're just trying to express that this imagery that you have, these big old statues looking down on us.

We're not going to have that anymore. You're not going to look down on us, like it's time for us to see each other as equal instead of as degraded or animalistic as what they tend to do. So I think that that is a really big thing for, for BLM. And I think that that is going to continue probably up. Until like, um, November in December, really.

So, um, hopefully everything like with everything that is going on, um, especially when it comes to the, um, with the pandemic, it's going to be interesting to see what happens.

Rhyner: [01:34:58] I couldn't agree with you [01:35:00] more. I mean, this whole thing has been crazy and I really don't see it slowing down anytime soon.

Especially when you have the big city still filling up with people, wearing masks, mind you wearing masks using hand sanitizer. So they aren't like those Karen's you see tearing down, um, masks and aisles and stuff and target and Oh, You know, it just be, it just gets into that whole thing, you know, going back to what you said about black on black crime, which isn't a real thing, by the way.

Um, we have crime black on black crime is just another way of being, uh,

what's what's the word? Uh,

I guess, uh, prejudice in a way, right? It seemed like it's, you know,


The black people finding each other when in reality, it's just, it's just them trying to survive, like you said, and I was wondering what you feel like poverty plays into that role because a lot [01:36:00] of the all lives matter.

People are also the same people that are like, you know, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, work hard, et cetera, et cetera. I feel like the all lives matter, people need to understand, uh, Where black people are coming from with all of this anger that they're throwing at these statutes when they're tearing them down, when they're marching in the streets and they're telling the police to stop killing them.

Jason: [01:36:26] Yeah. Um, I think poverty plays a really, really huge role. Cause at that point you're talking, we're talking about domino effects here because, um, When they talk about, Oh yeah. Why are you, why are you still talking about slavery? Like slavery is essentially the main blueprint that started the systemic oppression because once the freeze, once they freed the slaves, um, they decided to [01:37:00] create a, an entire system that, that once again is used for.

Being able to gain free labor and it'll be used for those who are, um, who have, has done a crime or, or has, um, done criminal activity. And when they get caught, you put them in there and more times than not, it starts to become ruggedize, visible that. Um, a lot of blacks are usually targeted because the reason why that happened is because of the fact that those jobs that they tell us to, um, work hard for, or try to, you know, gain and stuff like that.

Um, a lot of the time, um, when people see who we are, we don't usually get the job. Usually a job is given to somebody else, um, that isn't a person of color. And [01:38:00] so. Um, once we're denied that, then what we have to do, we have to go ahead and get so for, um, to go for a welfare and you'll get through steps and stuff.

And then of course what happened in the seventies when they did say, you know what, um, this is, we need to get rid of that because it's making these it's, it's pretty much that we're giving these guys privilege, but they need to work hard and shit like that. So, Um, it's like, no matter what we try to do to try and get up on our feet, there's always something that prevents us from getting to that next step.

Like if it wouldn't really have none of this really wouldn't have happened. If. We're actually looked at fairly and equally an example, like for when you have the whole idea of someone who has, um, a name like [01:39:00] Lakeesha or Tyrone compared to someone like Natalie and Josh. You'd see Natalie in Joss, get those opportunities more because their names look more, um, they, they are more white and they feel like, like they are more trustworthy with that.

Because if, once again feeds the idea of that, all black people are criminals. And do you really want to trust the black person behind it, behind the counter? You know what I mean? So like that kind of poll goes into that as well of like there's so many attributes that takes away our ability to be able to get those jobs.

So. With the fact that like, if we're not able to get a job to help take care of our family or find a way to be able to get a place to live, then yeah. You're going to have to, you have no choice, but to go into them down that route, when it comes to like, [01:40:00] um, selling illegal drugs or having to be, um, a part of a gang or whatever, it's because of the fact that you have to do whatever you can to survive.

And, you know, and I always like to use the whole thing. Someone brings up the black on black crime relate with what about the WeDo right. Crime, more white people, right. Each other, like why killing white people more than black people killing black people. So like at that point, you're just like, Trying to nitpick certain things to just slap a very negative label for the rest of their lives.

Like with George foil, look, a lot of people want to bring up, um, his, uh, um, his criminal charges that have been five years ago, even though he did his time. And he's looking to do things for a better. But just because what [01:41:00] he did five years ago, that's enough to be like, okay, it's okay for the cops to shoot him down.

Even though he's done his time, even though he's learned his lesson. And, um, even though the fact that like the whole thing really occurred because he had a $20 bill that may or may not be fake. And you mean, it told me that. Killing a man like us is worth $20 is $20 enough to shoot a guy down or put their knee on their neck.

Like to me, that just shows how people are so willing to nitpick a person's life and their mistakes in order to justify the outcome that occurred. Like people do make mistakes. And it is up to that person to, to [01:42:00] learn from them. And I don't think that just because he had a fake $20 bill should pretty much justify the value.

Oh yeah. He's always like this. No, that shouldn't be the case at all. Like you can't just say that. Raping someone should, is equivalent to stealing some candy from a grocery store like that, that shouldn't be a thing. So that's kind of one of the big things for me. When people love trying to throw the whole black on black crime, then people are like thuggery or whatever is the fact that you will never understand that until you're in that situation yourself.

That's your. Having to be like, this is the last resort and I'm going to have to go there in order to keep the lights on, make sure that I [01:43:00] get to eat the next day. And yes, there's a big risk in that. And unfortunately, some, some people end up having to go into that because of it. But as I alluded to earlier, Um, in this conversation that.

The only way for us to really get that, to be able to diminish that a little bit. And that's just from across the board, not just when it comes to, um, black people, but white folks as well that are having to live in poverty. Is that we have to do that. We have to be able to get more money within those communities.

Like a good example would be like being able to help pay for those schools that are, uh, that really do need the funding to be able to get the, the latest textbooks. Um, they can [01:44:00] share that, um, they're able to feed some of these kids who have to, um, Uh, pay for school lunches and stuff like that, and really be able to improve the pay for, um, for teachers as well.

Like in order for us to have, um, to, to live easier lives is to help build up those, uh, communities that have been blatantly ignored for so long.

Rhyner: [01:44:31] Oh man. That was a lot.

Jason: [01:44:35] Yeah, I'm a chatter box.

Rhyner: [01:44:38] Yeah. You brought up some really good points though. I mean, the fact of the matter is that a lot of people out there that have lived, you know, just by default privileged lives that have never had to worry about, you know, where their meal is going to come from the next day.

And. When they get fired out of the blue, they have to worry about if the job interviews that they're getting, you know, after they meet them in [01:45:00] person, after getting picked, you know, if they're going to be able to get the job, not because of their merit, their merits are solid, but the color of their skin says otherwise, no matter how well

you think you did.


it's just that lack of perspective that people don't have, but it's thanks to people like you that were able to get that perspective. Like a first person perspective on what it's like to be in that situation. And I really appreciate that. And thank you so much for chatting with me tonight.

Jason: [01:45:32] It's no problem.

I think that it's. Like this kind of conversation needs to happen, um, that just within the fandom, but also, um, as a whole, like the more we're able to tell what we have to go through every day and our stories, uh, people will easily understand that, um, we're not doing this because we want. We want a higher [01:46:00] status or whatever.

We want to be able to get paid more than another race it's they leave because of the fact that, um, me being a black man, um, have so many things stacked against us that we have to work even harder in order to just start having, uh, an even playing field. So I think it's very important for us to, to, to, to acknowledge that and do whatever we can to help improve that.

And that's just across the board.

Rhyner: [01:46:37] Exactly. The more we talk about it, the easier it gets. And then we have, you know, this, uh, you know, the perspective again, just from one person to another person, to the next person. And. You know, things get a little bit better in the communities. That's why we're trying to have that BiPAP ran furry furry convention.

That's why we're trying to elevate the black [01:47:00] voices, the native Americans, et cetera, et cetera.

Jason: [01:47:03] Right?

Rhyner: [01:47:05] Every step we take is an important that no matter how small it


so thank you again, Jason. And if you'd like to support the show, just share this episode around, tell us what you thought, what to improve.

All that jazz. We've got a tip jar link below and the links to our social media. You know, I'm at Rhyner. My guest is @JXBReviews and my sound engineer. Uh, my old goat is @Viogoat. Everything's going to be linked below, including a, uh, several resources for BLM. And a BIPOC furry chats, resources, stuff like that.

Thanks so much for listening guys. And I'll catch you next time. See ya.

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