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On June 20th, 2020 I interviewed a good friend of mine whom I speak with regularly. It turned out to be one of the deepest, and heart wrenching interviews yet where I found myself learning more about him as the interview went on. It’s a great start to the official, “What’s the Fuzz?!” podcast!

Since I am mixed, black and Mexican, and John is a black man it didn’t take long into trading stories things started to get heavy. I learned things about my friend through this interview that, honestly, I didn’t think I’d ever know otherwise. Though it may prove difficult to be a white listener as we share experiences and talk about what the BLM movement means to us, I’m asking you to let things turn over in your mind.

I was asleep for a long time before I woke up. 

If someone sent you this link so you can understand the BLM movement, or are a BIPOC furry yourself and feel lost in the world right now this is where you need to be. I think this will shed some light on the issues plaguing our communities and country right now. 

Thanks for listening!

THEY* for Sonicfox. Apologies. 

★ Support this podcast by donating ★

[00:00:00] Rhyner: [00:00:00] And we are live, yo, what's up, everybody. I'm Rhyner and I eat ass coming at you live to bring you the "What's The Fuzz?!" furry podcast, the only podcast where you can taste the rainbow. Now I'm actually pretty excited tonight because I get to sit down with a good friend of mine. I've known him for about three years.

Now. He's a little white Wolf with a quirky sense of humor. Self-proclaimed coffee furry addicts, and he spends more than $1,200 on Starbucks a year. You can catch him @cereza_jd on twitter.com. How are you doing today, John?

John: [00:00:37] First of all, that's the way you describe me. I'm just appalled. Very appalled.

Rhyner: [00:00:45] Oh, what don't you like about it?

John: [00:00:46] Okay.

Rhyner: [00:00:47] Okay.

John: [00:00:49] It's all good. That's all good.

Rhyner: [00:00:52] You wouldn't consider yourself a good boy.

John: [00:00:55] I think I'm a very good boy. 90% of the [00:01:00] time.

Rhyner: [00:01:02] What about the other 10%?

John: [00:01:04] We don't need to have that discussion that stays between me and my boyfriend. Thank you very much for your concern.

Rhyner: [00:01:14] I mean, if you say so, all right, well, I actually brought you in today to talk a little bit about how you actually became a furry.

Would you mind sharing that with me?

John: [00:01:25] It's kind of funny when I think about it, because I never really considered myself to be a furry yet first. I think it all started around 2017 ish when I joined your furry server and I was surrounded by furries. So I think at that point I kind of just adopted the culture myself and.

A year later, I got my own sauna. So I think that's basically where I got it from, because [00:02:00] I really didn't consider myself. Okay. Okay. Gay furry before then. So that's pretty much how it started and I just kept it ever since that happened.

Rhyner: [00:02:14] So you're saying I turned you into a furry

John: [00:02:17] basically.

Rhyner: [00:02:18] Wow. That is just incredible.

I feel very accomplished right now. If I'm honest with you,

John: [00:02:24] of course you are.

Rhyner: [00:02:29] I? Hmm.

John: [00:02:32] Nothing.

Rhyner: [00:02:33] I swear. You were about to say something for a moment.

John: [00:02:36] No, I just find it very hilarious.

Rhyner: [00:02:40] Oh yeah. That's great. I don't really know how that would like happen. Unless it was me, you know, influencing you,

John: [00:02:50] you are the type of

person that instinct, instigates and influences other people to do things.

It shouldn't be a surprise at this point.

Rhyner: [00:02:58] I will take that as a [00:03:00] compliment. Thank you very much, John. No, but growing up and stuff, you didn't really think about, uh, the animal characters from like Robin hood or whatever.

John: [00:03:10] Funny,

funny you say that because. If there's one thing that I distinctively remember is when I was like 11 years old, when I will watch space jam, I was a little bit too obsessed with the fucking giant fucking monsters.

And I never knew why, but Oh yeah. See, it's

so

funny to me, but I've never told anyone that, but. It was always meant to be, it was always meant to be,

Rhyner: [00:03:45] you know, when you opened up with space jam, I was seeing that going at different directions. Sylvester or Bugs Bunny or, but no, you want to, were interested in the big monsters.

John: [00:03:59] It's so [00:04:00] embarrassing.

Rhyner: [00:04:01] Hey man, we all have our things, you know, ain't nothing wrong with that. Well, I guess being a furry is more of like a secondary hobby for you rather than a something centralizing.

John: [00:04:12] Oh, most definitely. I never, I thought about it as a main thing. even not even like Mike Twitter, bio or my profile picture, but it's just something that it just so happens to be a thing.

Rhyner: [00:04:28] So it's like a special topping, like the icing on the cake bakes the chocolate sprinkles on the cupcake, kind of . So if you weren't a furry, it wouldn't really affect your life much at all.

John: [00:04:42] Not really.

Rhyner: [00:04:43] You would just have like a different profile picture and you would spend less money on art, basically

John: [00:04:49] less money on art and more on food, but more or less.

Yeah.

Rhyner: [00:04:52] Hmm. I hear you there. Since the fandom just kind of got you in the tail end since you're how old again?

[00:05:00] John: [00:05:00] I'm 18. I turned 18 on May 19th this year.

Rhyner: [00:05:05] Yeah. So you're pretty young in there. Did the furry influence you sexually in any way? Did it help you understand your sexuality more?

John: [00:05:14] Uh,

I'd have to disagree.

I knew I was gay before. I even was introduced to the furry fandom in the beginning. So I don't really believe that it had any real effect on me. I just so happen to like the porn that just so happened to be gay furry porn. Right. So I really don't think it changed anything about.

Rhyner: [00:05:42] So it was all just happenstance.

You were already gay, you found the porn and you know, it's like, Oh, this is a thing. I like it. And that was it.

John: [00:05:50] Basically. It's so simple.

Rhyner: [00:05:54] That's

okay. It's not too bad at all. Would you ever consider late going into a, fur con or fur meets or maybe expanding [00:06:00] your horizons in the furry community?

John: [00:06:02] You know, I've never thought about it because stuff like that.

Honestly, I would not go by myself, but if I knew people that I could go with and maybe, but I would never go to like a, fur con by myself.

Rhyner: [00:06:22] and that's totally fair. I mean, there's a bunch of weirdos at, for cons and you can get swept up in something you don't really necessarily agree with, but if you went there with like your boyfriend or something, then maybe, you know, you could find your own ways of making fun.

Right?

John: [00:06:37] Probably. Yeah.

Rhyner: [00:06:39] Think you, uh, would a encourage LGBTQ youth to follow the same kind of path that you did in finding yourself. Is there anything you would change about it?

John: [00:06:48] Elaborate.

Rhyner: [00:06:50] Was there a defining moment to you in particular where you realized that you were different from everyone else around you, [00:07:00] where everyone else was looking to girls or the opposite sex or whatever?

You were looking to the same sex.

John: [00:07:08] What,

what first comes to mind is when I would. Watch certain things like a Netflix show or a YouTube video. My mind was always hyper-focused. I feel like on the men in it, and I didn't, I was young. I was really young. I was a child. So I did, I realize it at first, but I think that was also a sign.

Also a second sign is. I was obsessed with, um, young Housewives and like, as a child, I would just watch it at like 10 o'clock at night and I was just obsessed with it. So I feel like that is another sign. Funny enough. I feel like once I got older and I [00:08:00] discovered what porn was, I think I was finally beginning to understand.

What my sexuality is at a basic level.

Rhyner: [00:08:10] So it started simply by, you know, being interested in men and on TV. And it evolved into seeing them as, you know, a source of sexual desire in like porn and such. Do you think that LGBT youth around the same age as you like 15, 16, 17, et cetera, that they. Could find a different Avenue for discovering their sexuality in that way, or if they should follow the same way that you did, which was through porn in that way.

John: [00:08:44] I

wouldn't, I wouldn't think of it as follow cause I believe people find, people find out and a lot of it different ways, whether it be through or something they read. [00:09:00] Or someone in their lives that they're really attached to. So I don't, I think there's a certain path that you should follow in discovering your sexuality, but I do believe you should follow what you think is right.

Rhyner: [00:09:17] Okay. So you wanted them to follow their own path and not worry about what other people were doing,

John: [00:09:23] basically.

Rhyner: [00:09:25] Yeah. That's totally valid. So you grew up as a gay black man, and there is a, there's like a stigma around being gay in the black community. Do you feel like that sort of, uh, affected your life in any way?

Did it make it harder to come out for you?

John: [00:09:47] Most definitely. It changed. I think that in particular affects it has affected a lot in my life before I even came out originally.

Rhyner: [00:09:58] Was there any, like a [00:10:00] particular moment in time where you, you thought to yourself that you couldn't do it, that you just want it to be normal?

Quote, unquote.

John: [00:10:08] Well, yeah, because the family I grew up with was, you know, all black and, you know, Christians and very conservative, well not so my mother, but my grandparents who kind of latch on to my mother's sometimes, but they were very conservative Christians and, you know, they upheld yeah. Certain beliefs more.

So my grandparents, because, you know, they just don't think some things are right. On to a certain spectrum because I do have relatives. I have multiple relatives actually that are in a gay marriage, but the difference is that there black woman, and as to my knowledge, I don't, to my knowledge, none of my relatives that our men [00:11:00] are K.

So I think that also has. Affected in a way that some of them think because as far as I'm concerned, um, like one of the only children that's right. Gay, but I believe that especially made it difficult for me come out. Not only because of how they believe, but yeah. Okay. I just felt really alone in a sense.

Rhyner: [00:11:33] Yeah, I understand what you mean. Yeah. It's bad enough to come out as a, you know, uh, a gay man in an already like overly stigmatized sort of, you know, they expect you to be a certain way and then you turn out not to be, but on top of that, everyone that stands out actually as part of their own group, you know, the black women who are with other women, et cetera.

So it actually just [00:12:00] makes you stand out more. For you to actually put yourself out there, right?

John: [00:12:05] Yeah, I'd say so

Rhyner: [00:12:07] what in particular helped you along the way? Was there anything that, that brought you out that helped give you strength

John: [00:12:16] for a long time? I, I would think that I didn't have to the strength to come out, you know, to my parents that I live with at the time, because it was.

Very hard living at the home. I used to live in because of how I thought about myself. And I would B you know, verbally abused sometimes because of how I acted and in some very rare cases, physically abused, but that really. Made me think in my mind that I wouldn't be able to [00:13:00] come out and, you know, that's, that's back in 2017, but I had certain friends at the time that was helped me.

knock me into my senses that it was okay for who I was. And. Going into 2018 when I was, you know, kicked out of my mother's house and I moved in with my dad, I really felt like that I would be able to start, start differently because as of now my stepmother and my dad know that I'm out and they do know about my boyfriend.

So I think in this new Avenue, a lot easier to be myself than what that's before. And I feel like a lot of the friends that [00:14:00] I have and still have alright, big contributor to who I am right now. Well,

Rhyner: [00:14:09] Hey, I'm absolutely delighted to hear that you got to turn your life around. Not everybody has the chance to do that.

Not everybody has the friends to help you along the way. So I gotta say like, great job. I'm actually like really proud of you for that. And I feel as though others struggling. With this sort of thing with coming out and understanding their identity and, you know, having to deal with their families, they might look at this and they, they might find their own way because of you.

And I think that's really remarkable.

John: [00:14:52] Yeah, I think so.

Rhyner: [00:14:54] I suppose I should, uh, go ahead and ask, since your family was [00:15:00] a very imposing part of, you know, Your time growing up, uh, when you say the words, like you're black, where does that come from to you? Was there a moment where you thought that you were different from other kids growing up?

John: [00:15:20] That's

of, that's a very good question. So growing up at birth, how was, well, because. When I was born, I was placed into a foster home because my biological parents couldn't afford to have a child. But when I was adopted and about two years old by my mother that I have today, she always told me that, I, wasn't different.

Then other kids in my class at the time, you know, [00:16:00] even though I was born with albinism, she told me that I think she told me that I was not different from other kids. And I believe even though she she's hurt, even though she's hurt me a lot, she is a big contributor to a lot of the. I self as well, black person that I have today, because as far as I can think back, okay.

I have never, I've never been bullied who I was by other people, whether it be in school or out in public, I've never been bullied. And it's because, Oh, I don't give a shit. What people say. I know who the fuck I am. I know I am black and that's the end of the it damn discussion. And I know who I am, and I think that's very, very important when you [00:17:00] look at things like this.

And I do have to thank my mother for being a big contribute. So how I look at myself and how I view my ethnicity. Well,

Rhyner: [00:17:13] Hey, If that is a source of pride for you, then absolutely right on, there are people out there who struggled to fit in with everyone else. And they think, you know, because they go to an all white school and they're black, they can't fit in and nobody will like them.

And in some cases, you know, they might struggle. But as long as you try to keep your head up, you can't let anyone get you down like that. Right?

John: [00:17:43] I agree. I completely agree

Rhyner: [00:17:45] exactly. And I mean, in the climate that we're going, right? Like the climate that we're in right now, you know, with the black lives matter movement with people fighting for equality, a big civil rights movement, [00:18:00] like this it's, it gets people on one side or the other, you know, their true colors.

Come out. You get to see what they're really made of. You know, there people that you might have known for years. And I, you know, me and my mom are black, you know, obviously, and we live in Southern Indiana and have worked here. People know us, you know, it's great being friends with them on Facebook and everything until you see the racist, bigoted things that they just.

Pump out day after day. And you, you look at it and you're thinking, how can this person that is just so kind to me? How can they see me like this? And it's, it's a genuine pain. It is a genuine hurt that, I. I don't [00:19:00] even know if they're even aware of at the time and the next day after, you know, saying. You know, supporting Trump, um, harassing protesters or supporting, you know, uh, a bakery for not allowing a LGBT couple to get a cake or, you know, something like that.

You're just, you just can't stop feeling like it is fake. It has always been fake. And you wonder what part of them is real. It's really disappointing to see, but. At the same time, it really helps you grow as a person and understand that you need to own who you are, because any other person that you meet can and will lie to you, pretending that they accept you.

And you need to be [00:20:00] fully aware of that. You need to accept yourself. Before you let anyone else, except you, who you really are. I would like to know what you think of everything going around right now, because you live in Atlanta, Georgia, right? Like you live around there

John: [00:20:19] downtown Atlanta is it's like a 15 minute drive.

It's not far, but yeah, I live in the city.

Rhyner: [00:20:30] And what have you seen from the protest so far? How have things

gotten

John: [00:20:35] last week? Um, when I was going grocery shopping with my father, we went to a couple of stores and there were protests. I did see that going around and we went to a Walmart and so my surprise every window, and that Walmart was broken every window.

Rhyner: [00:20:56] Jesus.

John: [00:20:57] Yeah. Cause, um, [00:21:00] Okay outside. And some of the inside the windows were boarded up with wood, but we went to like on last Sunday or Monday and the windows are all repaired. And I feel like that just goes to show that the corporations will always just repair. What's been broken regardless, but. Those were broken and the shooting.

Bye. The police at the Wendy's is 12 minutes away from me. That's the Wendy's, that's all that was burned also, but it's very close to my house and that scares me a lot. That. Like when I, when my stepmother goes out to go to her doctor's appointments. Cause she, she goes multiple times a week for her, you know, medication and her physical therapy.

Yeah. Or when I go out with my father [00:22:00] to go grocery shopping or whatnot, it's just very scary to even be outside. I don't like it.

Rhyner: [00:22:09] Oh, I bet. That sounds absolutely terrifying, especially for your, uh, your stepmother. I honestly can't imagine, uh, being civilian in that area, because even if you are not a protester, there's still a chance that you'll be dragged out of your car, that you will be arrested with no reason, no warrant, nothing.

And you will be treated worse than any animal simply for getting in. Quote unquote their way. And was that in mind, do you feel like you have concerns for the future regarding this movement regarding everything happening right now?

John: [00:22:50] I believe that things, half the change that a pull these reforms is necessary completely necessary.

It [00:23:00] needs to happen as soon as possible, because if it doesn't. I feel like more black lives will be in danger and no one should have too have the constant threat of being feel threatened, purchase living and. Going out and seemingly have a good time to just have that and instantly bye a cop who wasn't having a good day or just decided to be petty that day in someone's life could end right there and it shouldn't be like that.

And that shouldn't happen as often as it should be. And I feel like if reform takes place and. People continue to talk about the movement even now, you know, it's not, it may not show up on Twitter as much [00:24:00] as it was a week ago, but people need to continue to spread awareness of the movement, continue to donate, continue to protests for the change that needs to happen.

So people can live about their lives and yeah. Nah, feel threatened because they're living because no one should have to go through that.

Rhyner: [00:24:29] Absolutely not. You shouldn't feel like your life is being threatened because you went to walk your dog because you went to. To your own house, going to work, getting off work, driving, try to use a coupon, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

You know, the list goes on and on and on for all these mundane things that, you know, entitled white people. Thanks. They can call up [00:25:00] there. They're good old buddies, the cops to come kill some thugs, you know, Just because they're so miserable, they might as well give their misery some company and nothing about that is right.

We should not have a system that enables them to abuse the power to the extent that it is right now, a man could die for giving someone a counterfeit $20 bill that is a death sentence in America. And nothing about that is right. It's up to us to change it, to keep talking about it, to keep spreading awareness.

And if we let the movement die, if we stopped talking about it, if we forget about it because it's not being broadcasted on Twitter anymore, then we might as well have killed another 1000 black [00:26:00] lives. Because so many people are being detained right now. They're being taken away. They're being basically kidnapped with no idea where they are going.

Like, there are so many people from the protest that it is going missing and we don't know if we'll see them again, you know, we don't know what they're doing to them, and we don't know what they have in store for us, what they have in store for the future to a punish us. For standing out against the injustice going on in this country right now, it's just really disappointing.

It's not a great time to call yourself an American right now. There is a lot of regret and shame attached to that right now, the only people that could be considered like proud Americans are the people out there taking down the statues, making reforms. Fighting for what they know [00:27:00] is right. And it was my hope that these interviews would reach to people, the furries and the community that are sitting on the sideline and they're scratching their head.

And they're saying, well, Kohl's on fire. How's that going to help anything? You guys are setting Walmart on fire. How's that going to help me thing? It's just Walmart. We're talking about black lives, but all lives matter. Why you get so mad when we say all lives matter, I'm hoping that this will answer their questions.

I'm hoping that they'll understand. And did you have anything you wanted to say to the all lives matter crowd? John,

John: [00:27:48] that statement in of itself is very, ignorant I. Don't like it at all. Mmm. [00:28:00] Actually something that happened a few days ago. Um, ironically enough, I was playing, I was playing smash with someone and he was a 13 year old kid and he was asking me about, huh?

Okay. Black lives matter movement and stuff. And something he told me was like very alarming. And he said to me that he understood the cries of black people, but he also quote, unquote understood what the white Americans were saying all lives matter. And I had to explain to him that all lives matter. It doesn't exist.

Yeah. It really hurts to see was parents. [00:29:00] And some media pushes on to the youth in America right now, curves how they think in this entire situation. And I really think that's. Very important because very they're going to be okay. The next generation, you know, after us. And it kind of hurts to see to an extent

Rhyner: [00:29:30] you're absolutely right about that.

I couldn't imagine looking at all of the pain that's surrounding the country right now and daring to say that all lives matter when. You know, damn well that you don't actually care about other people as much as you pretend to, you know, you want to say all lives matter, but you don't vaccinate your children.

You [00:30:00] say all lives matter, but you don't wear your masks. It's just, it's misleading. It makes people think, well, It makes people think that all lives matter and black lives matter are inherently opposing, right? But you need to look at it a different way. You need to look at it as all lives cannot matter until black lives matter.

That is the full statement. That is the full picture because black lives do not matter right now. A black guy dying for something entirely frivolous is nothing more than a comedy skit because it's a truth that everybody knows, but no one did anything about for a very long time. And it's just kind of disappointing again, that we let things get to this point to [00:31:00] 2020 it's.

Our youngest generation to have to deal with, you know, and us somewhere in the middle to tell the generations, you know, the next generations and everything, how things really are like you having to tell that kid, you know, that's not what it's about. We can't always trust who we would love to trust who we think is going to say the right thing.

So, I suppose, do you know anything about Sonic Fox? The, uh, the fighting games, furry?

John: [00:31:45] Yeah.

Um, I do follow Sonic Fox on Twitter. I think he's, he's really got damn good at fighting games and he's fair. Very [00:32:00] entertaining person in general. So, yeah. Yeah, I do like to keep up with a lot of what he's doing.

Rhyner: [00:32:08] Do you feel like he represents you in any way since you know, he's a, he's a gay black furry, you're a gay black furry.

Do you feel like he represents you or anything that you believe in, in particular?

John: [00:32:20] I think Sonic Fox is, Oh, really good. Valuable representation of gay black furries. Because even though some people may oppose them for declaring he's gay or voicing is political appeals. Publicly. Some people make one old white night and not agree with it, but I believe he.

Truly does love loved the community and he know who he is. And I really do admire that. And I liked that [00:33:00] about him as a person, despite what some people want to create this narrative about Sonic Fox. And I don't think that's fair.

Rhyner: [00:33:13] You believe they're creating a misleading narrative about him.

John: [00:33:17] I believe so.

Rhyner: [00:33:18] Yes. So the reality is that he's actually an upstanding figure in the gay black for a community that people should look to for guidance. I used to be kind of, not exactly. Against Sonic Fox. I first learned about him through watching a mortal Kombat. VODs right. Like, I didn't even know he was a furry back then.

So then when everybody starts talking about him, you know, talking about, Oh, Sonic Fox, he's getting the word and he's saying, you know, fuck Republicans or whatever. It's like, Oh, okay. I guess he's the flavor of the week, but it became more than that. It became [00:34:00] people coming out of the woodwork and finding out about, about the existence of Kay.

Blackfurs imagine that. So my best friends, very little representation, very little actually make it that high up and get to be on a award show stage and accept an award and be able to give a speech and be able to shed light on that. Portion of the community, which is constantly overshadowed. Bye. You know, white people.

It's kind of ironic that he's a, he's a beacon of light when he's just, you know, he's your relatively normal goofy for a guy, but I guess that's kind of the point, isn't it?

John: [00:34:47] Yeah. Hmm.

Rhyner: [00:34:49] It's nice to see someone you can relate to up there. You know, as much as people want to bag on the smash community as well, you know, [00:35:00] it's nice to see people of a diverse background being able to achieve things and you can put yourself in their shoes.

Was there anything else that you wanted to say before we wrap up?

John: [00:35:14] Yeah, think, I think I got it all out.

Rhyner: [00:35:18] Alright. This is going to be heading out to all those furries out there that may not necessarily agree with the movement going on right now. They don't understand why it's happening. They maybe only affected, only affected by a curfew.

By noise. By traffic jams. You know, they see the movement as a nuisance, and I hope this can shed new light on it. Was there anything in particular that you wanted to say to those people that you wanted to say that you have to those white furries? They grew up in white neighborhoods and went to white schools [00:36:00] and have one black friend.

And they just, well, honestly, I don't even know if they've gotten this far, but was there anything that you wanted to say to them?

John: [00:36:14] To that. The furry fandom is made up of mostly white furries. That's a fact. And I feel like for that particular reason, they don't understand the gravity of what this movement and why it's important and why they should be helping this movement buck and their little.

Furry bubble and pretending that everything is okay when no everything is not okay. And since you are a white furry of privilege, you don't have the same worry status [00:37:00] black people will have. And black varies as well. And I think. It's very important for them to educate themselves on the situation and not stayed silent.

For, the platforms that a lot of them have decently and even really big platforms that they should really educate themselves and voice as to why this movement is very important and why action needs to be made. And not just stay in their little owo bubble all the time, because it won't, it doesn't help.

And it makes you look like a fool.

Rhyner: [00:37:46] I couldn't have said that better myself. Oh man. Furries furries furries furries furries furries, always with the owo's. And it's, [00:38:00] it's funny, like you think it's a, you would think that it was a stereotype that, Mmm. That furries wouldn't be like that, you know, that they would be a little bit more educated that they would be on the up and up.

You know, these are the same guys that, you know, they regularly donate to charities for ALS cancer AIDS. Yeah. It's, it's really surprising how much. They, they can and cannot care at the same time. And I'm really hoping that maybe hearing it through, you know, the mouths of other furries, of, you know, the people underneath the suits will help them understand the gravity of the situation because you can stick your fingers in your ears and act like he can't hear it.

Like, you know, as much as you want. Um, But at the end of the day, your lives will be impacted at some point in some way, [00:39:00] besides a minor inconvenience in a, uh, on the highway or, or seeing it in the newspaper, seeing it on Twitter. It's great to be able to be able to do a blocked that out that in itself is privilege being able to just turn the TV off and not think about anymore because it's not your life.

That's being put on the line that in itself is, and incredible privilege that neither of us can say that we have. And I suppose I'm going to go ahead and end on that note. Thank you so much for coming on the show, John, I really appreciate you talking with me about this.

John: [00:39:48] No problem. No problem. I'm glad I was able to for voice in general.

Yeah.

Rhyner: [00:39:57] Yeah. I know it's not the [00:40:00] lightest topic in the world, but it is good to be able to get your experience and be able to sympathize with you in a way, you know, because I haven't lived the life that you've had. You haven't lived the life I've had, but. I'm still glad that we made an effort to meet halfway.

Right. And if you are a, if you are also a, uh, a person of color or a black furry, I actually am going to link a. A telegram chat below that you can click on and join. If you want to support the show, you can give us a ko-fi or something. Don't forget to follow. Uh, John on Twitter @Cereza_AD.

You can also follow my sound engineer on Twitter. It's @viogoat. Well, that's going to be in the little link things on the bottom. [00:41:00] And don't forget to follow me on Twitter too. @RhynerAD that'd be really cool. I do like attention, ah, share this with someone, you know, or don't just enjoy it yourself.

Doesn't really matter, but Hey, thanks a lot. See ya.

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